HubSpot vs WordPress: Which One is Better for Your Business? [Endless Customers Podcast S.1 Ep 16]

**Note: This transcript was generated by AI and has not been edited for content.

Vin
0:00:00
Alex, if you're a business owner and you're not sure whether you should lean towards WordPress or HubSpot, we're going to start unpacking what that decision should look like for you today.

Alex
0:00:08
Sounds good.

Alex
0:00:09
Let's get after it.

Alex
0:00:19
Welcome back to Endless Customers. My name's Alex Winter and today I'm joined by Vin Gaeta, our head of web strategy here at IMPACT Vin. What's good, buddy?

Vin
0:00:26
What's going on, Alex?

Alex
0:00:26
Hanging in there, man. We have a lot to talk about today. Big topic. We're talking about HubSpot versus WordPress, but that may not make total sense for a lot of viewers and listeners out there because WordPress is very much about designing and building websites and HubSpot, although you can design and build websites in HubSpot, it also does so many other stuff and things and has all these different features. So, we really want to focus in on the web piece of this today and really put HubSpot's integrations and HubSpot features against WordPress and give people insights on what is going to be best for their business and which one they should choose and what's going to work best for them. So first before we dive into like the features and who does what with HubSpot and WordPress

Alex
0:01:05
and what's best for their businesses, why don't we go high level and talk about HubSpot first and then WordPress as far as like what the features are and what they can provide. Yeah. So let's start with HubSpot and go from there.

Vin
0:01:15
So as you look at both tools, they're fundamentally different. Right? So HubSpot, suite of things. You can have a sales CRM, you can have the marketing hub, you can have a website built in HubSpot. You can also use parts of HubSpot without having your website built in there. So there are plenty of sites out there that are WordPress for the CMS and they have marketing hub or sales hub or service hub inside of HubSpot and they're using that for other parts of the business, right?

Alex
0:01:41
Got it.

Vin
0:01:42
WordPress is just a CMS, that's it. It's an open source CMS and we can talk a little bit about that because folks listening have probably heard open source, closed source, this is a conversation I had literally this week and the prospect was like, what does it mean? Like explain it to me like I'm four because I've heard those terms.

Alex
0:02:00
Hi, yes, me too please.

Vin
0:02:01
We'll dig into that but so WordPress is a CMS content management system right it's built for you to create a website on to manage your content into it and The thing that everyone hears is there's lots of plugins. There's there's a plugin for everything plugins plugins plugins Blessing and a curse for WordPress, right?

Alex
0:02:18
And I don't know a ton about WordPress, but I do know that the plugins everyone gets excited about them, everybody wants to use them, but plugins come and go, they can break, and if those are fundamental pieces to your site, it can break your site, literally.

Vin
0:02:32
So that could be a problem. And that is a conversation we have all the time. That goes into open source versus closed source, right? So WordPress open source, any developer can build a plugin and have it work inside of WordPress CMS. That's a really awesome thing. If there's a functionality you need, you can hire a developer, they can build a plugin, and you can use it until it needs to be updated or there's a vulnerability.

Vin
0:02:57
So that is one of the things about WordPress and the plugins. You have to be able to maintain that. You have to have a developer or someone that knows code or someone that's comfortable making these updates so that your website doesn't become outdated, doesn't become vulnerable. Those are security issues. That's where most folks have heard WordPress websites get malware or get attacked, potentially, right? It's not because the site's inherently built wrong.

Vin
0:03:21
It's because plugins have vulnerabilities. That's part of it. It's open source. Anyone can build these things, and that means that you're gonna have varying degrees of quality in the plugins that you may be able to install.

Alex
0:03:31
And security, it sounds like. Yeah, and for business owners, it sounds like they need to have at least a developer on their team. If not, they need to hire a freelance developer that's basically looking at their WordPress site and constantly making sure that the integrations and the plugins and everything are operating as they should

Alex
0:03:46
and there aren't any security breaches or anything like that.

Vin
0:03:48
And it depends on the setup in the environment, right? So if it's, WordPress is set up in a good way depending on what you need. The average marketer might be able to make backups and update some plugins and if something goes awry, you can revert your backup. But if it goes awry, the marketer's not going to be able to fix that problem.

Vin
0:04:08
You're going to need to pay someone to go deal with code. That's not fun for anybody, right? So that is part of the downside of WordPress. Plus side, everyone's going to say WordPress is free. You're going to hear that all the time. If we look at cost, right? WordPress is free, which is huge.

Alex
0:04:25
I mean, if you're a business owner, cost is a real thing.

Vin
0:04:27
Yeah.

Alex
0:04:28
Saving cost and overhead is your number one priority. So if you get something for free, and WordPress has a lot of great features for something that's free, so it sounds pretty attractive, right?

Vin
0:04:37
I'm going to put that big asterisk on free, Alex, because it's free and you need hosting. You need an SSL certificate for security, so your URL is secure. You're going to need to pay for backup plugins. You're going to need to pay for all these additional things. There's likely premium grade plugins that you're going to need to use to augment the base WordPress functionality.

Alex
0:05:01
Right.

Vin
0:05:02
It's free-ish. Free.

Alex
0:05:04
Right?

Vin
0:05:05
Right. And so that's where we often have a conversation with prospects around the pros and cons of WordPress versus HubSpot, right? And cost is one of the big factors. HubSpot is a very powerful tool when you look at the whole ecosystem, right? CMS Hub is one really strong component of that. But the power of that CMS Hub is how you can integrate it with the other stuff.

Vin
0:05:27
So WordPress, you have to inherently integrate with other things to do your reporting, to do your analysis, to do your marketing motions. You need other stuff, right? If you build inside of HubSpot You can actually access all of those stuff depending on the hubs you have right because HubSpot already has all those features built-in That makes sense cost you're looking in and this is on the site right now as of this month It's 400 a month if depending on how you pay right and price goes up and down for CMS hub pro

Vin
0:05:55
That's the level that we usually look at because it has database functionality and all the things that we usually recommend or leverage with our clients. So the tech stack for WordPress, there is a baseline of free if you just take an out-of-the-box bare bones website, don't do anything to it. But once you bring in hosting, you bring in security, you bring in all the other additional features, you're looking at a couple hundred dollars a month potentially in your tech stack. Now that's going to range in someone out there saying, I'm spending $40 a month. Awesome. And I would look at what you have in your tech stack and

Vin
0:06:30
what you may need to be adding if you want to make your website the best salesperson that it can be.

Alex
0:06:35
Right. That's a big point. We always talk about one of your best salespeople is your website, if it's done correctly, if it's billed correctly. And then also, I think one of the positives for HubSpot is not only hosting it and having that CMS there, but then when you're talking about sales, you can track all that pipeline, all the funnels, you can set up all those funnels,

Alex
0:06:50
like it gives you so much control to really turn your website into a salesperson and not just basically a resume or a show page or something like that.

Vin
0:06:57
And it's the data that you get by having a HubSpot website, it's inherent, right? All the data is inside of the HubSpot portal, they've set it up to be marketer friendly, to be a non- strategist, developer type person that can go read the data and make actions based off of that, which that's the name of the game if you're going to have a website that performs and can meet your people where they are. And that's what we're here to do. And none of this is to say that you cannot accomplish that in WordPress or in another CMS.

Vin
0:07:28
Yeah, I was going to ask you that because I'm sure you can do the same sort of tracking

Alex
0:07:31
and have analytical data and funnels the same way as you would in WordPress, but you probably have to have plugins and add-ons and all these different features, right?

Vin
0:07:41
You're going to be looking at Google Analytics 4. You're going to be looking at creating dashboards in there or pulling data into a tool like Google's Looker Studio, right? So different things to visualize the data. Or maybe you're using Pardot, Marketo if you're on WordPress, right? We have folks that, for specific reasons, they have WordPress as the main site,

Vin
0:08:01
and they're using HubSpot for the marketing engine so it all pipes back into that. But more often than not you're not getting the level of reporting that you can get if it's all under that one hood and we've seen a lot of success with folks having it there. So let's go into one of the reasons why you may want that WordPress website. Yeah let's talk about that. So one of the things that HubSpot cannot do current state and I don't know if this is something they will do,

Vin
0:08:25
hopefully.

Alex
0:08:26
Hopefully, they're rolling out a lot of new stuff all the time, so.

Vin
0:08:28
It's a big thing. Yeah. It's e-commerce. So if you are looking at having a store with products that ship, you're gonna need a different solution that can pipe into. You have a lot of SKUs and a shopping cart

Vin
0:08:39
and all that stuff, yeah, I get what you're saying.

Alex
0:08:40
You're gonna look at something like a Shopify,

Vin
0:08:41
not even a WordPress for that, or you can use WooCommerce on WordPress, and that's something that we talk with folks about a lot. What's the best fit for you? Right. And depending on what the answer is to that, the recommendation may change. We just built a really awesome website that has Shopify as the store part for their kicker and the main marketing engine is

Vin
0:08:59
built on HubSpot. So they get all that power and they have the store power for what they actually need to be selling to the end consumers. So it's the best of

Alex
0:09:07
both worlds there. But it's not for everyone. Right. So as a business owner or as a leader, if you're trying to figure this out, and you work with a lot of clients, and I know you have a lot of experience doing this, you do everything from the decision-making all the way through to the actual integrations and building, what do you recommend? And I know we're generally speaking because there's lots of different industries, B2B, B2C, but like, how should a leader go about making an informed decision and making sure that they pick something that's right for them? Because WordPress might be the right decision, HubSpot might be the right decision And I feel like it can be overwhelming for people at times that don't really know because most business leaders are not web experts

Alex
0:09:45
We're not web developers. Hi, I'm not either so like what I guess I can ask you direct to like if it was me And I'm starting a business. What do I do or what would you recommend for like a good starting point?

Vin
0:09:54
it depends on the long-term goals of where you're trying to get to okay if you want a website that is easily editable by the average person, right? That if you want to go change a template or a layout, you don't need to reach out to someone to change code or any of that stuff.

Alex
0:10:12
Call an agency.

Vin
0:10:13
Right.

Vin
0:10:14
Phone a friend and go put a ticket, wait two weeks. Exactly. I'm talking with someone right now that to change a call to action on their WordPress website because of how it was built, asterisks on that, because of how it was built, it takes two weeks to update the main call to action in their navigation.

Alex
0:10:29
Two weeks?

Vin
0:10:29
Two weeks.

Vin
0:10:30
And it's not the right call to action right now. Like, that's crazy town for the marketer, and that's going to be a hindrance on your success. So those are parts of the conversation that we have to have. Where do you want your website to be? Do you want it to be a brochure that doesn't get updated?

Alex
0:10:46
And if that works for you, great. But if you need to have the control, and you need to be updating on the fly, and all those things,

Vin
0:10:51
then you really need to think strategically about what the site's going to do for you. And in my experience, it's easier to set that up for the marketer inside of HubSpot than it is in WordPress. And you can set it up in WordPress and have a great experience. It's just easier from what I've seen for the person to actually get their hands dirty and keep this thing living and breathing inside of HubSpot versus all the additional upkeep that has to be taught and gotten after in WordPress.

Alex
0:11:18
Right, it also sounds like, just from what you're saying, and correct me if I'm wrong here, that WordPress can be attractive at times because it's free or it's cheaper, so you're trying to save some money, but we know that sometimes that quick save a buck doesn't in the long run always pan out and you end up spending a lot more money

Alex
0:11:36
because you need to have a developer, you need to shoulder tap people versus spending the $300, $400 a month with HubSpot to have that pro-level piece where you have total control and you have that access. Is that right that I'm saying it that way?

Vin
0:11:49
Yeah. I mean, for that $300, $400 a month for HubSpot CMS Pro, you're getting additional functionality that has to be likely paid plugins for WordPress, A-B testing, different levels of reporting, HubDB functionality, which you can have that stuff in WordPress, but HubDB is HubSpot's database functionality. There's different layers that you need to go get after in WordPress. WordPress is really, really good if you have a developer

Vin
0:12:15
on staff, if you want to staff a developer long-term, or if you want to pay someone to be able to maintain your website. HubSpot's really good if you want to give full complete control with the right setup for the marketer in-house to be able to run this and make it an optimized user

Alex
0:12:32
experience long term. Right and if we're talking about they ask you answer it sounds like HubSpot is a better choice only because if you have a content manager if you have these people in place on your marketing team within your organization it gives them the capability to do this on the fly to have total control and the leverage to make these decisions and not have to wait and not have to rely on an outside agency basically.

Vin
0:12:53
If you're doing your content creation, you're doing your marketing out of HubSpot, having your website there gives you a different level of closed-loop reporting. You can literally tie everything together and have a dashboard around what articles are driving the most revenue for your business. How much did this one piece of content generate over the last quarter. For the CEO to see that, that's what's going to make your company double down on the things that are bringing in educated resources and educated prospects. When we talk WordPress for a sub-spot, it's so much bigger than just the website. It's what are you doing with the website at your business? Because regardless of what route

Vin
0:13:33
you're going to go, you're going to spend time designing, strategizing, and building a website, and then it's what happens after, right? So many times we have folks that come to us with WordPress websites, and they weren't built in a way that were able to be maintained internally. They had to go and redo this.

Alex
0:13:52
Right. Well, didn't WordPress start out more as like a blogging platform that became like a website builder? So I think there's also that, like at least in my head, it's like, for content people, it's like, no, WordPress is great because it's easy to crank blogs out and it's easy to create content on WordPress and it totally is, but it also is on HubSpot. And I guess my question is like when it comes to creating content specifically, can we compare them a little bit as to like pros and cons

Alex
0:14:17
of WordPress versus HubSpot there as well?

Vin
0:14:20
The experience of creating blogs on both is going to be fairly similar, right? HubSpot does have, they built a lot into the tool, guys. There's AI built into HubSpot that will immediately help you generate better content. That's cool. And they're only gonna double down on that. They want it to be the all-in-one tool for the marketers, the sales team,

Vin
0:14:41
the hub for you to go to to run your business success, website, marketing, sales, all of that. You can get that in WordPress, and it's easy to just go in and write but you're gonna bring in layers of I need more plugins I need more things to help me write better do different formatting things of that nature yeah it's not to say that you can't be successful in WordPress there's thousands of websites it's still like 40% of the market share for the most used CMS and there's a reason why folks

Vin
0:15:09
are looking outside of WordPress for what their websites are being built on there's really powerful companies that are powered by HubSpot on the CMS on the marketing and the sales side because it's a good fit for them and what they are doing. And that's ultimately what it comes down to. What do you want for your business and where do you want the future of your marketing and sales success to be?

Vin
0:15:30
Is it going to be in-house with your team where they can own it? Or is it going to be relying on a developer, either in-house or outsourced to keep it alive.

Alex
0:15:39
Yeah, that makes sense. That makes a lot of sense. So, you got me thinking too, and I'm getting like into the weeds on the technical piece, right? Because it is a big decision, and they're both great products for different reasons, and it may fit your business depending on certain factors, right? Another piece that we talk about a lot is like the template builder, and I know that you have done a huge amount of work with this, and the IMPACT team has done a lot of work

Alex
0:15:58
with creating customized templates that we can then give to our clients, that the clients have total control again. And I'm sure there's plugins for WordPress too, but can we also compare apples to apples on the template builders and some of the features that are in both of the products?

Vin
0:16:12
So let's start with WordPress, right? There's hundreds of thousands of themes out there for WordPress. It's very easy to go to any theme place like a themeforest.com, look through all their themes, you can get a theme from free, two thousands of dollars. And there is gonna be various degrees of control, various degrees of setups. Everything that I'm saying here is almost a copy and paste for HubSpot as well, right?

Vin
0:16:36
So HubSpot, closed source, it's not open, not everyone can go build a theme or a plugin for it. They do have a marketplace for themes and templates and plugin type things for integrations, right? So there's lots of themes for WordPress that have different calibers of builds and security vulnerabilities, user experience pieces in there. It's the same case for HubSpot. So we did build our own theme called the Trust Theme.

Vin
0:16:58
It's inside the HubSpot Marketplace, all with the principles of they ask, you answer and messaging frameworks built in to make sure that out of the box you have guidance on what we have seen be successful, right? Now, that's where it starts. That's where everything starts. You have to test and optimize and iterate off of that to see what works for your specific user. But we built that with the mindset of, what's the

Vin
0:17:23
smallest amount of tools that you need in your tool belt to build the right experience and keep it alive long term? So same thing for HubSpot. In the template marketplace, there's free themes all the way up to thousands of dollars of themes, depending on where the person put it in there and what they felt it was needed to be for what you're getting out of it, right?

Vin
0:17:43
But at the end of the day, it does make it easy to spin up a website fairly quickly if you know what you need to do after the fact. So depending on what the client comes to, we may recommend starting with the theme. We may recommend a more customized build depending on what they need to go get after and their specific goals, and frankly,

Vin
0:18:01
the current state of where they are at.

Alex
0:18:04
That makes sense. That does make sense. It's got me thinking, have you ever heard this before? I'm sure you have, right? Do you have business owners or business leaders that are like oh, we're going to start on WordPress because it's free and it's easy and then in like a year or two from now then like once we're getting some revenue and then we'll switch to HubSpot. Does that cause more of a mess or is that a good idea? Like what's your recommendation on that? Because I have a feeling that has happened to you in the

Vin
0:18:26
past right? It sure has. You have to do these like huge migrations over from WordPress. Yeah it's it's an interesting situation so again it's gonna depend but that can create some ripple effects for SEO right? You're moving CMS, you're gonna have to rebuild the website so it's never gonna be a copy and paste from WordPress into HubSpot. I wish it was that would make my life really easy, but you have to rebuild the core structure. You have to move content. It's never just going to be rip and drop, right? So if you build it in WordPress first because of whatever reasons, cost barriers, time barriers,

Vin
0:19:03
et cetera, so on, there's going to be a technical debt that you now accrued if the future state plan is to get into the HubSpot. So my question in that situation is, what is actually stopping us from just starting where we want the site to be?

Alex
0:19:17
Yeah, which is a big question. Yeah. Really like as a leader taking a step back and looking long term strategically like where are we going, what's the dream scenario, and what are the best tools that we can choose to set us up for long term success?

Vin
0:19:30
At the end of the day, the website is the crux of everything we do, sales and marketing. And if we do not know that it is set up for long-term success. WordPress or HubSpot, it doesn't matter. We're never gonna capitalize on all the things that we're doing as a company. So, we can talk WordPress versus HubSpot and that's always the conversation we have. It's WordPress versus HubSpot, what should we do?

Vin
0:19:54
The answer is it's gonna be dependent on your business. 90% of the sites that we build at this point are on HubSpot, there's a reason for that, right? Most of the companies we work with are leveraging Marketing Hub or Sales Hub or they're leaning in that direction to give everything internal control and visibility. It only makes sense to have your team

Vin
0:20:16
working on the website and the tool that they're spending their time in from a sales and marketing standpoint instead of bouncing around into multiple different portals potentially, right?

Alex
0:20:24
So. Yeah, it would just cause confusion and extra layers and stuff that maybe don't need to happen. And it really sounds like if you're bought into they ask you answer as a leader, as a culture of your company, it sounds like HubSpot is really the right move

Alex
0:20:38
because of the features you're talking about and because of the long-term strategic play and the control that you can have to build trust and to be honest and to create content on the fly. Because creating two to three pieces of content a week, if you're putting out two to three blogs a week, two to three videos a week, if you're doing what they ask you to answer

Alex
0:20:54
really recommends that you do for success, you need that control. You need to have it.

Vin
0:20:59
You need the reporting that HubSpot can give you. The business owner needs to see that that effort, three articles and three videos a week, that's a ton of time. Yeah, it is. We have to be able to quickly, quickly and efficiently report on that. And that's the name of the game.

Vin
0:21:16
That's one of the biggest reasons why we recommend HubSpot. It's set up for that reporting to close the loop if we have all the data in the right

Alex
0:21:23
spots. It allows you to make much better business decisions and informed decisions that's based off of data and not off of your gut feeling or fairy dust or whatever's out there on the

Vin
0:21:32
ether. You can do it in WordPress. It's just going to take more time, more effort, and potentially some geeky know-how. You're gonna need to dig into stuff for GA4 and reporting custom events in there. And we're not gonna go into that level of geekery right now. That's a future conversation. But that is some of the give and take.

Alex
0:21:53
Yeah, I know HubSpot can be a little bit more expensive or a little bit more costly, especially if you recommend the pro level. But there's also a free level. So if you're not sure, what would you recommend? Like, is it good for people to check out HubSpot and do the free piece just to start to understand and get a sense of it before they take

Alex
0:22:07
like the full dive into the Pro Series?

Vin
0:22:09
There's free, there's starter, there's pro, there's enterprise, right? So there is a flavor of CMS for everyone that wants to start looking at HubSpot. And you can, the theme that we have built, the trust theme works on every level. You can start on starter, there's just limitations on what you get access to in the CMS Hub, right?

Vin
0:22:29
So, to unlock the full potential of what your marketing team can do to keep this thing living and breathing, you can start on starter. You're eventually likely going to want to upgrade to get a little bit more functionality. But that is a conversation that we have depending on where folks are at. And we have started people on starter and said, cool, let's go get your engine running. Let's make sure we can tie this all back and when it makes sense we're gonna push you into pro so that you can get A-B testing. You can get deeper levels of functionality in there so you can really set your user experience up

Alex
0:23:00
for long-term success. Yeah that's cool because it allows you to as the company scales as you start to get some traction and you can start to add on and add on more and go to the different levels and unlock all these features as you need them. Okay so then you've been developing websites for a long time, over a decade, if not longer, working with a lot of clients, different industries, facets, we've been over this, right? Do you have an example of somebody maybe that's trying to make this decision as a business leader and they don't know what to do and you're helping them to understand and see what's going to be best for their business?

Vin
0:23:30
I have a call and a conversation that I've been having over the last couple of weeks and it boils down to the team, right? It boils down to the team and the goals. Ultimately, they are on WordPress right now, and they're comfortable in WordPress. It's what they know, it's what they've seen. And the conversation we had goes to what we've already talked about.

Vin
0:23:50
Do you want to rely on a developer, or staff a developer, to keep this up to date, to make sure your plugins stay up to date, to make sure that you can control the things and optimize around Google, because your current build is not set up for that. Or do we look at HubSpot where the average marketer can optimize for conversions. You can be set up for reporting success. That was the biggest thing for them.

Vin
0:24:17
They don't have reporting set up. So you can go in the current state, you can go into WordPress and set up all this custom reporting that you need, or we can have it all out of the box inside of HubSpot and get you moving forward faster. That's, name of the game is time and speed, right? So, current site, you have WordPress, you can rebuild in WordPress, and then we can look at what reporting needs to get set up

Vin
0:24:40
to actually track and let you take action. Or we can move your ecosystem into HubSpot, we can get the out of the box reporting that already shows the conversion rates and where we can go optimize your journey and you're off to the races.

Alex
0:24:54
So what did this person think after you laid this out? Because it sounds like they were leaning towards like we're sticking with WordPress. So how did the conversation shift

Vin
0:25:02
after you've had some time? Well, after we dug into it a little bit more and understood, they're not tying anything back to marketing. They're not able to show any of the stuff that they're doing.

Alex
0:25:13
They're not reporting on anything.

Vin
0:25:14
No, they're not reporting on anything on WordPress. So there's a lot of work that's got to get done if we're staying in WordPress to get the reporting together, right? So we are leaning in this conversation towards HubSpot and it's going to be the recommendation we make to the company, the team, their board is if we want to get the most out of our sales

Vin
0:25:33
and marketing efforts, we're going to look at shifting y'all into HubSpot so you can get closed-loop reporting and we can make sure that your sales and marketing team has a finger on the pulse of what's driving not only that new business for you, but also bringing in recruitment for your company. And it's twofold.

Vin
0:25:53
So how do we make sure that we're able to capitalize on everything we are putting out there and get the data to back that up?

Alex
0:26:01
Data-driven decisions. That makes for better business. It does, it lets you grow your business faster. And I think that's what everyone that's listening and watching is in the game of. We're trying to scale our businesses, our ideas, and what we're passionate about. So it really feels like HubSpot is going to give you more of that long-term strategic control. You can still do it with WordPress. WordPress is great, but it gives people a lot to think about. And I think now people hopefully have a much better picture of which way they could or should go based off of their needs and

Alex
0:26:28
their business.

Vin
0:26:29
Yeah. There's a lot to dig into and we scratched the surface today, but ultimately it's how do you want your website to be a part of your long-term success? Is it going to be passive or are we going to have it as an active part of what we're

Alex
0:26:42
doing? Vin, thanks for the high-level look between HubSpot and WordPress and which one might be best for you and for your business. Before we go, can you just let people know how they can get in touch, because I'm sure there's going to be questions. This is a technical subject. So how can people get in touch with you if they want to follow up or if they want to learn more?

Vin
0:26:56
Yeah, feel free to shoot an email over to coach at impactplus.com or connect with me directly on LinkedIn.

Alex
0:27:01
Yeah, and for everyone listening and watching, Vin and his team are incredible. So if you need help or advice with any of this, they are definitely the go-to resource. Vin, thanks for being on the show. Love having you here, man. Yeah, it's really great seeing you. For everybody listening and watching, this is Endless Customers. I'm Alex Winter. I'm Alex Winter.

Alex
0:27:15
and watching. This is Endless Customers. I'm Alex Winter. We'll see you on the next episode.

Transcribed with Cockatoo